Feathered Friends Spoonbill. Not a review, just a heads up.

This is not a review.  I have not yet used this bag.  These are just observations.  Consider it me thinking out loud.

I was browsing some web sites this morning and came across the Feathered Friends Spoonbill two-person sleeping bag.  It was unveiled in 2007.  Not sure why I didn't notice it until now.  I have been toying with the idea of building a two person quilt for backpacking with my wife and for alpine climbing with a partner.  Though I don't enjoy sleeping in the same bag or quilt with another man, it is a lot more efficient to share body heat than to have two separate sleeping bags.

There was a line in the Spoonbill description that I found really intriguing:

"This bag has been tested extensively on Denali for the past five years and the feedback has been that it is plenty warm on that mountain for the athletes who were using it."

The bag weighs 2lb 11oz in a regular length.  That's the same weight as their Snowbunting 0 degree, 1-person sleeping bag, which is not warm enough for Denali for a single person, at least not without wearing other insulating layers as well.

The Spoonbill has approximately 5" of loft, about the same as FF's 20 degree sleeping bags.  But, then you add a heater sleeping next to you and the warmth and efficiency of the bag goes way up.  I've read a couple reviews of it being closer to a 10 degree bag and Feathered Friends says that their testers show it to be closer to a 0 degree bag.

I'm sure Feathered Friends' Denali claim totally depends on who the people are inside the bag.

Here are some stats:

• Fill Weight: 23oz
• Average Total Weight: 2lb 11oz
• 850 or 900 fill power goose down
• Width: 104" of girth at the shoulders, 90" at the hips, 68" at the feet
• Two, fully-adjustable hoods (adjusting one hood shouldn't affect the other person)
• Comes with either a NanoSphere shell or an Ultralight Pertex Endurance Shell
• There is no down on the bottom; one must rely on their pads for warmth.  Compressed down on the bottom doesn't do much anyway.
• $700-$850, depending on length and shell material.  Ouch!

Why I think this is a good idea

Let's consider the possibility that this bag is warm enough for Denali.  That means with two people it's warmth is comparable to a 0 degree bag, approximately.  A 0 degree bag from Feathered Friends will cost you about $550-$600 and will weigh about 2lb 11oz.  A comparable Western Mountaineering bag will cost about $580 and weigh around 2lb 11oz.  If you multiply this by two bags, then the weight is hovering between five and six pounds.  Just one Spoonbill weighs 2lb 11oz and is big enough for two people.  That's a weight savings of almost three pounds.  And for the unlucky person that gets to carry the bag, they're still only carrying the same weight as they would be with a 1-person 0 degree bag and would be saving a pound of weight, compared to carrying their own -20 bag.

Now let's consider that this bag is not warm enough for Denali by itself, but it is if you wear an insulated jacket and pants as part of your sleep system.  You may still sleep more comfortably because the bag is roomier than a normal sleeping bag.  I'm not sure about you, but when I sleep in my down jacket, I can't zip up my sleeping bag or it's simply too snug for comfort.  I struggle in a mummy bag without extra layers.  Having a two person bag, though still snug, I would guess would be more comfortable with those extra layers.

Finally, one of these bags is a lot cheaper than two of the others.  $750 for this bag is a lot better than about $1200 for two of the others.

The Potential Downsides

I can see a few potential downsides to this bag.  First of all, as a backpacking bag for use with my wife, I don't think it could get any better.  As an alpine climbing bag with a buddy, I'm not so sure.  Just the thought of cuddling with another guy all night is enough to make me consider carrying the extra 3 pounds we'd be saving.

Here is one of the funniest things I've read on the subject, by Kelly Cordes:

http://www.patagonia.com/us/patagonia.go?assetid=50207

The other downside is that it may not be as versatile on a solo trip.  I guess you could unzip one side and fold the extra sleeping bag over like a burrito, but probably not as light or as efficient as a single person bag for a solo trip.

Either way, I'm still strongly considering this option for my wife and I and am debating its use as a 2-man  alpine climbing bag when going really light is necessary.

These pictures were taken from Feathered Friends' Facebook Page.  Hope they don't mind:

Notice there's no insulation on the bottom of the bag.  When you sleep on down, the down is compressed and loses its insulating value.  Therefore, it's pointless weight.  Sleeping pads are the key to insulating from the ground.

3-D Hoods

2lb 10.5oz according to this scale.

Sleeping Bag vs. Quilt

I asked my mother-in-law if I could borrow her sewing machine for a couple days because I don't have one of my own.  She asked me what I needed it for, so I told her, "I'm making a quilt."  Some other family members happened to hear the conversation and said, "Is Kelsey making it or are you?"  "No, I'm making it.  She's working," I answered, a little uneasy about where this conversation was headed.  So now I'm the joke in the family because I stay home and sew quilts while Kelsey is working hard to support our family.  They've mostly forgotten about it now, but I'm sure this blog post will remind them.

Anyway, I was sewing a quilt for backpacking and climbing.  I made this quilt about 8 months ago after my 45 degree down sleeping bag blew away along with my tent in the Cirque of the Towers, Wind Rivers.  That was an expensive trip.

The Philosophy

The philosophy behind a sleeping quilt instead of a sleeping bag is pretty simple.  A sleeping bag provides warmth to your body by trapping air that is then heated by your body.  The loft in the sleeping bag insulation is what traps the 'dead' air.  The more loft, the warmer the bag, generally.

So, when you are laying in a sleeping bag, your body compresses the insulation and it is not able to trap air that your body can warm.  That's why it's so important to sleep on a pad.  Well, if the pad is giving the insulation but the compressed insulation from the bag is not doing much, that is just extra weight for nothing.  So, somebody decided to cut the bottom out of a sleeping bag, forget the zipper, and voila, the sleeping quilt was born.

Other companies have used this philosophy to make quilts and lightweight sleeping bags.  Some of these companies include Nunatak (www.nunatakusa.com), Jacks 'R' Better (www.jacksrbetter.com), and Golite (www.golite.com).  Using this same philosophy, Big Agnes makes their sleeping bags with a pad sleeve on the bottom of the bag instead of insulation.  Their bags are still fully enclosed with a zipper.

Our Homemade Quilts

Phil made a quilt quite a few years ago to replace an old sleeping bag.  I made my quilt about 8 months ago to replace my lost sleeping bag.  Phil's quilt is down and baffled, my quilt is primaloft and quilted.

My Quilt.  It's made with two layers of 60g primaloft over the torso, and a single layer over the legs.  I stay comfortable to about 40 degrees, but I'm a pretty warm sleeper.  With insulated pants (MHW Compressors), booties (Homemade Primaloft), and a belay jacket (Rab Neutrino), I can stay comfortable to about 15 degrees.  0 degrees is pushing it with this and my other layers, but it'll do it.  This also adds about 20 degrees while added to another sleeping bag.  This quilt weighs 16oz without the strings.  I added the strings to help it stay on top of the pad and keep out drafts.  It cost about $120 for materials.

Phil's Quilt.  He has been using this for all four seasons for quite a few years now (5+).  He used a 30 denier (approx) water-resistant rip-stop nylon for the shell and about 850 fill-power down.  The down he bought was 900 fp down, but that is a best-possible-condition measurement.  In the real world it is closer to about 850 fp.  This quilt will keep him warm to about 30 degrees without his other layers, and to about 0 degrees with compressor pants and Rab Neutrino.  This quilt weighs 21oz, according to my scale.

There are sleeping bags on the market that have similar temperature ratings for similar weights, but they are usually much more expensive than what we were able to make our quilts for.  Or, there are sleeping bags for similar prices and similar temp ratings, but heavier.

For example, the warmth and weight of Phil's quilt would be comparable to the Western Mountaineering Megalite.  Phil made his quilt for about $180, the Megalite retails for $390 in a regular.

The warmth and price of my quilt would be fairly comparable to Golite's RS1+ quilt.  I guess my quilt cost about $40 more.  My quilt weighs about 9oz less than the Golite however.  I'd pay $40 for a better insulation and 9oz less total weight.

Conclusion

Quilts are a good way to lose weight without losing warmth.  The companies that make high-end quilts are quite pricy, but then again so are high-end sleeping bags.  Quilts are relatively easy to make, especially because no zippers are involved.

Here are a couple good links for instructions on how to make a quilt:

http://thegpsgeek.com/blog/archives/6

And also:

It is important to note that quilts can be quite drafty in cold weather if you don't design a way to keep the quilt tight against the pad.  This isn't as noticeable at 45 degrees, but is very noticeable at 10 degrees. 

I usually like sleeping in quilts better than sleeping bags because I tend to get a little claustrophobic when my sleeping bag is zipped all the way up. 

With all that said, I still love Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends bags and hope to own one or two of each some day.  I own a couple Marmot bags that I really like and wouldn't get rid of, even though I use my quilt more and more.